But success doesn't come from previous successes. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. And again, and startups the same way, just start a business every three to five years. And your business, your nonprofit, your community, your school, whatever it is, it's going to be more successful. SouthUStories.com. And so that was the first time but here's the thing is like, I can preach about that all day long. UGP opens our first Retail Store in January near campus at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, MI. He's got a lot of work to do. And it was only until like, I realized I was really attracted into companies and markets and areas that had some, some tangential tie in back to all the things I like, or have tie in some way. So I know those are two things that are really, really important to you. So when someone asked what I did, I had to basically say, you know, this is what I do, I print t-shirts. company facilitates a number of stores from which their customers are able to order and purchase their products. And now I do it for me. It was technically called A1 Screen Printing at the time because it was first in the phonebook. That's where I feel the most comfortable as I will tell anyone. There's lots of different ways that communication just basically needs to revamp and revamp, and you could have been a great communicator five years ago, and not be one now. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Rishi, really appreciate it. And something is standing in their way. And, and so for me, investing really is it's B school, for me, it has been, like I've always owned up to this is like, I don't really expect to get an ROI on a lot of my investments. So yeah, I wanna I want to talk about the present time, and then go back to that experience that you had in college. It's, you have to do it again. It was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. How do you overcome that? But because they were so far apart. And I wanted to get involved in other things. My podcast is called South U Stories. It was. Rishi Narayan, owner and founder of Underground Printing, talks about his rise in entrepreneurship as he started his extremely successful tee shirt printing business. If you want to go after something as a startup. No, my dad was a chemist and came to Purdue. Oh, that's my friend Brad. After high school, Ryan and Rishi both ended up at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, where engineering classes didn't really hold their attention. This article about a fashion brand, house, corporation or company is a stub. If you're a good communicator, your relationships are going to be a lot healthier. That's communication. So I I truly do think it's not a thing that you get over the hurdle. And then what was the point, because I'm just gonna get diluted down anyway. But I feel like for so many people that are listening to this, there's that one thing that they've been thinking about doing for a really long time. Thinking back to all the custom t-shirts they created in high school for the wide variety of student organizations they were involved in, R&R felt like this was something they could identify with and do well. And really forces you to go back to your roots, you know, sales, if sales is what it was, or customer service, if that's what it was, or I would argue they are the same thing. That's good with me. Underground Printing was founded by Rishi Narayan in 2001. Sure, you learn some things along the way. And we thought, we thought, okay, it's alright, because he can take our criticism, and we can guide him and like this business is great. ft. facility to a state of the art 33,000 sq. Sign up for texts. Went to Purdue for his post-doc, and then eventually stayed there to be a professor. And that was really that. Ask anyone who's run a business, they will tell you, it's hard to run a business, and you're still running the business. No, no, I mean, WeWork, Uber, Lyft, Fiverr. I graduated from grad school, I couldn't say I was a student anymore. But many friends, many people that you and I both know, only learn what they want to do after they graduate and take a career in what they think they're supposed to do, and then only learn that three down three years down the line, right, they get it wrong. I was very guilty of that. But there was a company we're pretty enamored with, was really doing really well in a space I knew really well. So, that's an example. And oh, by the way, you run a number of retail stores. I certainly believe the harder you work, the luckier you get. Free shipping at $100 & $10 is donated to wildlife. Because, it's so hard to do that. That's where you'll find Underground Printing. I mean, there's a lot of examples out there of those companies. I think was coming from me. And honestly, I feel bad now because like it was easy then had no risk, no responsibility. It's fluctuating these days. Hundred percent, I think that once I started, I think I did feel some guilt like and I wanted to have interest in other things. We can grow together with him. I could take classes and do okay, and you know, graduate and get the degree. I agree. I don't know that he's really cut out for modeling. And I did feel a little bit of guilt. So you start this business after starting another business building lofts inside of dorms? But I went to start a podcast a year ago, and I've been talking about it for three years. And maybe it's not luck, it's just that like some of them hit. As compared to the predecessor. In class, I actually take a little bit of time to talk about, like, how to write emails, best ways to sign off. So I've actually pulled back and I think I'm more interested in businesses that I know, I'm more interested in businesses that don't have aspirations of exiting, and don't have aspirations of raising multiple rounds, both have aspirations of raising one round, and then existing and turning a profit or whatever. My dad was a professor of chemical engineering both at Purdue and then at Michigan State and so I was a prototypical academic/academics kid, you know, definitely overachiever type, you know, wanted to take APs and do really well and be considered one of the smartest kids in school, I thought I was going to be a professor like my dad. And when things succeed, it's because you were able to communicate better or faster and more efficiently, tell your story better, whatever it might be. So it's always one of the phrases I really like his work on the business, not in the business. And then I went to school in Ann Arbor. Like, you know, great commencement speeches, you know, I eat those things up, I love commencement speeches, right? And what's the definition of success? So how are you? So I'm a college town, kid. For sure. And I'm curious, you know, how do you how do you overcome? That's because that's what makes us go. Underground Printing employment reaches 150 people in July, and in December UGP adds a 2nd shift to production. For sure. The company would become known as Underground Printing in 2004 upon the acquisition of a company with that name. Thanks, Coach Powers! And I just tend to be a person that likes to learn by, you know, putting my own chips in. Seed, Series A, Private Equity), Alternate or previous names for the organization, Whether an Organization is for profit or non-profit, General contact email for the organization. And I thought that was chemical engineering. And you're done. The. But in hindsight, it helped develop and frame like my beliefs in hedging and risk taking, you know, that I don't believe that entrepreneurship is risk taking, I think it's smart hedges/smart bets and making the right decision more often than not. Get him to smile. And to this day, you know, I like to start like, if people ask me what I do I my preferred answer is that I print t-shirts. Because I think it's one of those things that you just don't know right away. Best ways it is marketing, and you know, at least to some degree, but also it's just like, "hey, you want a professor to respond back quickly? Oh, by the way, you're also teaching classes at the University of Michigan in entrepreneurship. Like what makes for a good risk versus return ratio, where you're you're not taking that risk, so to speak, but you're actually making a smart investment. In 2021, UGP celebrated their 20th anniversary. So you're a busy man. UGP moves into 3,000 square foot Shop in Chelsea, MI. But I usually put the ball in the other person's court if that's where they want to go. UGP provided event T-shirts for Colts linebacker Darius Leonard's event. So I've literally only ever lived in college towns. So I think that I really needed to learn that lesson. But before I let you go, I'm curious to understand as someone who's been running a business for while and obviously there's great benefit for people; they get a chance to work in a startup or a high growth, you know, business, what have you seen as the number one characteristic that you now seek out when you're hiring new people. So we'll coach him up. I think hard work is a subset to a lot of, you know, a lot of us, you know, like we believe and we are hard workers, I think it's actually, the more you open yourself up to opportunities and potential chances of failure, the luckier you get. But when you can do it, I'm advocate in that because that is the fast B, and that is that kind of mentality. I'm not a believer in taking a big bet. Right? So my partner rang Greg and I, we, we were you know, we were easily distracted from our studies, let's just put it that way. You worked for it through your sophomore year, your junior and your senior year. And it's nice to be able to say thanks and it's worth the inefficiency at the end of the day and so I've completely changed my tune, you know, over the years on that one and I think it is worth it to follow up with a thanks or you know, you know, thanks for helping or this looks great or whatever, even if it's the only thing in the email and it just is pulled it back up in your inbox or pulls it back up in your queue or whatever it is. And I was like, what an idiot? So yeah, how did you get over it that very first time? Yeah. And I think it's, for us, it's like, yeah, we'll figure out a way to come out on the other side of this, you know, in 12 to 18 months, or whenever the world kind of opens back up fully. In November, UGP adds three more automatic presses to the shop, bringing the total count to 12 automatic presses and 11 manual presses. SaaS, Android, Cloud Computing, Medical Device), Where the organization is headquartered (e.g. I think that I'm a believer in hedging. So I'll tell you about the first time but I'll also tell you like, it isn't a past tense. So things like that. You know, earlier in my career, and maybe still, maybe till till this day, I still maybe pushed too too fast. So what's the one characteristic that you found to be most valuable? Communication is not all about speed, it's not all about getting there faster, right? Founded as A-1 Screen printing in Rishi's University of Michigan Dorm Room. I was watching this video and this model, like modeling it video like why is that dude so pissed? How would you sign off on that?" And it was going really well, the founder we weren't lukewarm on. And that's what he did. I think all problems stem from communication, all success stems from great communication, it all ends up on communication, when things fail is lack of communication, or broken communication. But I did happen to go back. Underground Printing, first known as A-1 Screenprinting, was founded in 2001 by childhood friends Rishi Narayan and Ryan Gregg while they were undergraduates at the University of Michigan. So yeah, so I grew up in Indiana. So you know, it was definitely an identity thing. We hope that continuing to concentrate on these things will take us to the next level in the future. But we loved the company and thought he had basically stumbled into something that was good was gold. Right? That's a much difficult proposition. There you go. I know, this is one of the reasons I like I've wanted to start a podcast on my end was because I just love like, that's a that's really, really noble. So I want to dig into two words that you mentioned. But, you decide to get a master's degree. But because they were so far apart, in my mind, I don't even I don't believe that anymore. Most people that were starting businesses, we're selling something, or, or providing a service, but essentially, it was all sales of some sort, advertising websites, whatever it might. Yeah, you know, like, you know, who followed him. Just live in a college town, man. But how can we learn to make sure we're growing and making things happen over the long term? I love it. Those are really impressive people. Is that about right? And so it was just, I lost the fun I'd rather be, I'd rather be small and be close than to have gotten the Series B or Series C and be very far from it, and still not profitable, still not accident. Like, what have you seen people do to improve their communication? And now, you know, I started to develop this kind of strategy at that time of the fast B which is basically like, you know, you don't need a get to the fast B because in real life nobody cares if you got A they just care if you got there, you know, and how and did you get there in time such for sure. Or how would you word the email? Free to drop me a line you can reach me at Rishi [dot] undergroundshirts.com. That was kind of humbling for me to some degree, right? It's the true fountain of youth. We're in the middle of a recession, a global pandemic, and tons of protests in the streets. And so, lately, I've just been breaking down all problems down to communication or all successes down to great communication, you know, or poignant communication, whatever it might be. There was one thing before we went I had to say; so you know I'm a MuskOx customer as you know, I have a flannel and a henley. Yeah. After the Tree of Life Synagogue tragedy in Pittsburgh, PA, In March, UGP added retail collections to. And so you know, I really like to take it in that lens, but yeah man, you know, business is hard. Throw you know, maybe any savings aside, you know, these are these are difficult things and I, you know, I remember like when we started the company and started, that at a very early age, sophomore in college, just got to get, and get a lot of kudos for being so young. It's what makes us tick. Rishi talks to Brad about the hardships of a college startup and dives into his advice for the aspiring entrepreneur. Communication is oftentimes about how you read emails these days as opposed to write letters or whatever, right. UGP moves production from a 3,000 sqf shop to a 12,000 sqf production facility. It's not a it's not a negative word anymore. Yes. Second Retail location is opened in September in. And it just came in a small dose and then it went from there. It was a good distance away, but still close enough to home and went to U of M to be an engineer. But, I do think that the way that I did it, the first time around was by just saying like, I can juggle a lot of things. But my parents are from India. No smile on his face? So yeah, as you allude to, I went and realized very quickly that I didn't really want to be an engineer. They're areas, I'm interested in, people I'm interested in. But after some gentle persuading and reassuring, they convinced the now-infamous tow truck driver to let them set up shop in his garage, next to a broken-down Chevy and two golden retrievers who lovingly shared their hair with anything they touched. Right. I told people, you know, when they were emailing back and forth or communicating in our systems like don't waste time putting thanks or thanks for your help or anything like everyone knows everyone else is thankful that's one extra email one extra thing to click on or whatever, like, that's a waste that's inefficient. So how the hell can you get better at that? But when you're when you're playing with house money, so to speak, or you know, a little friends and family or whatever, then yeah, why not? San Francisco Bay Area, Silicon Valley), Operating Status of Organization e.g. Yeah. And so there was something out there, we were going to do it, I was in like, student government and this and that, like anything else I could take you do to like, be busy. I'm around @RishiNarayan. So, you know, I think that there's really a training to like, just take a chance of stuff, take a chance of stuff and maybe throw your ego aside which is hard to do. Because, I want to make sure that I'm still good with the fact that if, by and large, the end of the day, if you like, "hey, cool," walk away, and you think "oh, Rishi, he prints t-shirts." You know, I agree. And that's one of my favorite things about where we are in this climate is that people have come around to valuing profitability. I think getting over it the first time for me, was, um, I talked about, I've talked about this before, but basically, it was understanding that I was not going to be at the top of my class at U of M in chemical engineering, that I wasn't into it as much as maybe others were, and that wasn't going to be my path. My dad was an entrepreneur, he licensed technologies back to himself and created businesses. Click here to find out what a phone book is, UGP teams up with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Toledo, OH near campus at the University of Toledo, Bo, a retail store featuring Official Bo Schembechler Brand apparel, Inc. Magazine's Fastest Growing Companies. So I needed to be able to tell people about that. My busted up Ford Probe GT Turbo, and a couple run-ins with breaking down and, and this is jack-of-all-trades type tow truck driver who used to print t-shirts in town. And rightly so like, I'm a very small piece of that puzzle, right. And I've learned things that from one that have applied to other even with the podcast, you know, it's like: "alright, learn this over here, this ties in over here sponsors this, that marketing," it, you know, it all, it's on me, I don't feel guilty about it, because it's on me, and I think I hold myself accountable to that, to derive the knowledge there to apply in other places, and vice versa. I'm good with that. And all part and parcel, right? ft. production facility. And then looking back on it, you know, but look, it really did teach me a lesson about hedging. And I've never known why Arkansas has said Arkansas as opposed to Kansas or Kansas or in front of it. Right, because in college, it was kind of like, you had this serendipity moment of this tow truck driver, which, yeah, was was sort of a nice kick in the ass for for you to actually start this t-shirt company. For sure. I was lucky, lucky to have gotten it right. At that certain point. A great lesson. One of the things I think is pretty interesting here that I haven't never talked with you about is you started Underground Printing when you were an undergrad. Yeah. And I just like I don't know what day it was. So you're growing this t-shirt business and at that point, you kind of know this is what you want to do. But you know what, we're humans. And it reveals a lot of your thinking, because you've grown a really successful business with Underground Printing, you're busy, you mentioned it's hard to run a business, I can attest to that, right? It didn't really become a real business still later on but but we got a lot of kudos for that. The India-na really pulled my parents in. The smiliest person I know who literally didn't smile in the whole thing. Please note, comments must be approved before they are published. Yeah, it's hard to convince someone that you can like hedge three things when you've taken a million dollars or something like that. And that's roots and family. And what I think is interesting is, that's not a lesson just for hiring at a company. And then going all in. We bet on the horse and not the jockey. So how did you learn that? So at the time, when you when we started that business, you know, they're like, you know, it wasn't you weren't raising money, by and large, you know, unless you had, like, amazingly, had developed some amazing technology or something like that at a young age, but you weren't creating apps, there wasn't the tech infrastructure, and you weren't really raising money. And I'm curious here, what made you decide to continue down the academic pursuit was that more of an identity thing where you weren't ready to sort of identifies it as a "T-Shirt Guy". That's right. So, it is great to see profitability. I was fortunate enough to learn what I wanted to do while I was in school, by opening myself up to opportunities. The real risk and responsibility would be with a mortgage and responsibilities and a partner, spouse, kids, you know, a life; people to take care of like, when you risk it, then that's, that's trickier. Oh, that's clearly important running a business and investor. It is true, it probably is inefficient. Hopefully, we'll be around. It may very well be after some of the things over we talked about, you know, ourselves, you and I. And you're certainly still running this business. You know, that's what I loved about President Obama, like such a great speaker. You can do the side hustle, if you have another job. In March, UGP purchases historic Moe Sport Shops in Ann Arbor, MI. And if I get an extra money back, then that's, that's just gravy on top of it. You said, "hey, like, being able to get over your, your ego and get over the opportunity of failure and the fact that, frankly, you will fail?" And so it did, it provided me two more years of runway to see whether this was the thing that we were going to do and and you know that to be completely honest, the first year, year and a half, like, we were figuring it out, and we were we were going at our own pace. Wait until you see if you've gotten to the point, why not hit that level? I think I really like those lessons and tips and really try to take them to heart and how things are broken down. And I was taking a difficult, you know, course, and that was where a lot of my pride was, and to then kind of go into this world of like, yet, but, you know, printing t-shirts, which, you know, for a while, like I didn't even want to own up to I kind of put it on the side, it was like I just print, I do this fun thing on side, but I'm an engineer, like that's what I do. So, you know, that was my path. Because a lot of the people that we talk with, it's like you can't hedge. Rishi, welcome to The Herd Has Spoken. And I thought the things he did was cool. Fast forward to two years later, when I realized that what an idiot I was, of course, I should have like, been in my dad's classes, like any advantage, I could have in college: course notes, like nepotism, I would have taken it all. And for you, I'm asking you to put your investor hat on, and I'd like to come back to this in just a minute why you've decided to become an investor. And once I kind of made that realization/got over that had something else to kind of put my chips into a little bit. Sure. Which is interesting, right? It is headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And that's not really, that's just a facet, very small facet of chemical engineering. So no, I was glad of my choices. Still it's worth it. It is potentially pending a name change but you know we'll keep the redirect on. And it was only sitting in, like, intro to thermodynamics, my sophomore year that I was like: "what is this, this is nothing like what I thought it was going to be." UGP continues to expand its production capacity with two more 8-head embroidery machines,ten heat presses, two new large scale dryers, newten color automatic screen printing press, new automatic folding machine, and state of the art eco-rinse screen machine and automatic scoop coaters for screen prep. And what was it that was standing in your way? And it was rooted within like the success of my family and where my dad had done it, but I took a lot of pride in that, but a lot of pride, I still do, you know? Get early access to clothing drops. All went up in flames. [4], During the COVID-19 pandemic, in March 2020, Underground Printing sold Flatten the Curve t-shirts in which proceeds directly benefited local businesses in towns like Ann Arbor, MI, Madison, WI, Evanston, IL, Iowa City, IA, Morgantown, WV, Grand Rapids, MI, and New Windsor, MD.[5]. And that was cool, right? The t-shirts were available in Pittsburgh retail stores and proceeds from the sale of any products with the Stronger Than Hate logo went directly to the victims of the tragedy.